Tough laddie...angry laddie...

There are many Americans -and Australians too- who have been aroused to fight and support those who fight.

The Islamofascists hope to defend and spread their religion but ironically they are losing ground in many places including Africa.

Islam may grow by natural increase but it has the lowest rate of conversion of any major religion and this will drop in Western countries. It remains to be seen if Islam will endure as Islam in Western countries.

The Jihad once smashed peaceloving Christian kingdoms of Egypt, North Africa and Spain. Spain was pushed to the brink of extermination as a western and Christian nation. At that time Spain responded to the challege of Jihad with an unconquerable spirit that held off Islam for 700 years and eventually expelled all the Moors from Spain. Perhaps this attacks will rouse the west to defend itself as well.

The Spanish Queen, Isabella in an act of great unjustice, expelled the Spanish Jews as well, a mistake that hurt many innocent people and did Spain no good. But there are those who wonder now that perhaps she knew something about Islam that we did not. As a proud propertied, educated Spanish woman she recognized Islam as the implacable enemy of Spain and especially Spanish Christianity and Spanish womanhood.

But think of what is happening in Israel now. Israel, in effect, has waged its own reconquista and ironically is repeating the Spanish story. Only this time the Jews are the conquistadors -in their ancient traditional homeland- and the Christians are their allies. Non-Christians are the appeasers and the neutrals in this fight hoping ostrich like that the bad guys will let the party rock on.

One of the great questions of our time is if Islam can peacefully coexist with modernity.

If it cannot a terrible future, a cruel future awaits us all and only the Devil himself would find joy in the thought of it.

Bin Laden...I have a message for you and for all Islamofasicists. America did not seek this fight but America will not shun this fight. Touch not these cats but with a glove.

May you go the way of Hitler, Mussolini, and Tojo. May Putin unleash his ex-KGB dogs of war on you and yours (he might have already). In this fight you are with us or against us. I recall Churchill's words when he said he would ally himself with the devil to stop Hitler's wicked will. Putin is looking better ever day. AL QAIDA DELENDA EST...AL QAIDA MUST BE DESTROYED.

Any politician who doesn't understand this should resign immediately.

Stephen, may I cross-post this at Eternity Road, please?

Sounds good to me!

I stand by your shoulder, Stephen.

You are not alone, brother. After 9/11 I woke up and started building up my own collection of military style firearms. I practice at a bare minimum of once a week, often more than that. And I'm contagious; I've gotten at least three other people to start buying guns that had not before.

The best deal going right now for a patriot on a tight budget is the Yugoslavian M59/66 SKS. It is a semi-automatic rifle which uses dirt cheap ammo (7.62x39) and is forgiving of poor maintenance. Comes with a folding bayonet and NATO standard grenade launcher. You can get one for under $100 if you look carefully. Some will deride it for not having a removable magazine like an AK47 or AR15/M16, but I contend that a man familiar with his SKS can reload with stripper clips faster than he can swap magazines.

If you go to a gun show with $250, you will go out with an SKS, a case of ammo (1,000 rds), a sling & cleaning kit. For $300 you will also get a carrying case for the rifle, a bunch of stripper clips, and much better cleaning equipment.

The ammo this rifle uses is the same as the AK47, which you will find many of your patriotic neighbors are also shooting. Standardizing on a common cartridge is a good thing.

BTW - I found out about this site from Kim du Toit's blog. Glad to be here.

Well Said!

revenge is wonderful

These must be some of the funniest postings I've ever read on the internet. You losers are hillarious! Too tired of fucking your sisters? Too tired of lynching black people and shooting abortion doctors? Now you act as though you're going to fight off armies of invaders with your flee market bought weaponry!! Please post more of your ignorant, uneducated rants. It keeps those of us lucky enough to read this trash very entertained.

Holy Moly. I get popped for a few idle blowing off steam threats and get investigated by Secret Service and you guys are like the Waco,Ruby Ridge, Republic of Tx folks with real guns and hardcore threats. Willing to bet the FBI doesnt even touch you all. Hell, ya might be the FBI...lol

Outstanding!!!

Looks as if the Kabala Luciferian Gnostic Bohemian Grove owl worshippers(world leaders) with a masonic DeLay(I mean Demolay) complex aren't gonna have to do too much work after all. We all gonna kill each other.

Definately worthy of another Marine Corp

OUTSTANDING!!!!

Either that or its just another FBI entrapment website....fascinating. It keeps getting better by the minute.

Oh by the way,

Geronimo wanted me to tell Yale University that he wants his Skull back

Wrong again....Im definately not a muzzie..but Im willing to bet Im whiter than Ashcraft.

Masturbate more, help the hate go away.

This is why we need politicians who think before reacting. Base it all on emotions, and you wind up in Iraq on a wild goose chase. More than a thousand of our best dead, thousands more crippled, a loss in international relationships, hundreds of billions wasted that could have gone to paying off the debt, making america stronger, or social programs like education and health care reform.

Powell himself said it's getting worse in Iraq. Are you all ostriches?

Outstanding brother!

"we will do what we did in 1775. Millions of us will form militias"

www.awrm.org , hope to see you there!

I second the AWRM link. This isn't the white power government hating web site that the media warned you about. Just a bunch of good but vigilant guys trying to be prepared for whatever domestic duty they may be called into action for.

You want to see change in this country? Lobby congress and the president to loose the militia against invaders coming over the Mexican border. Guests in this country are welcome through the front door, but sneak in the back window and we'll shoot you on sight.

Unfortunately this administration is in bed with Pres. Vincente Fox of Mexico, and instead of using his special agents to stop the flow of criminals over the border, he's recently been cracking down on border militia groups who exist solely to try to slow down the flow of illegals. Now two leaders of Ranch Rescue are in jail and one of them is in critical condition after an FBI agent shot him in the ass and ruptured some internal organs. Meanwhile the flow of invaders over the border is higher than ever in the areas formerly guarded by Ranch Rescue.

" More than a thousand of our best dead, thousands more crippled," Martin Milner in the HSI September newsletter stated: "there are currently over 100,000 deaths each year attributed to poperly prescribed drugs of all types in hospitals" Where is this person's ire at this waste of human life? "a loss in international relationships," isn't this pretty well what happened in the late 1700's, sometimes, toes must be stepped upon. "hundreds of billions wasted that could have gone to paying off the debt, making america stronger, or social programs like education and health care reform." I am of the opinion, that it is not the Federal Government's job to fund social programs like education and health care reform. It is the Federal Government's job "to provide for the common defence (sic)".

"Powell himself said it's getting worse in Iraq. Are you all ostriches?" I read that, and I've heard from many talking heads that it is expected, as the elections approach in Iraq, that the terrorists, who do not want the people of Iraq to be free, will do all that they can to prevent the elections. It's getting worse, because things are getting better. The increased violence is demonstrating that the terrorists fear what is coming.

This letter has nothing to do with white power and hating blacks or jews. It has to do with finally saying what many of us have been wanting to shout. This crap in the world that these extremists are doing is getting worse by the day. It is time to stop trying to fight a "hand holding" war and fight the way wars have been fought since the beginning. You wipe out the enemy all the way to the source, you do not give them a place to be safe..ie Falluja for example.

I fought those bastards in Somalia only to have my weak government take us home after some of my friends were killed and I was wounded. We did our jobs and were ready to finish it. However too many didnt have the stomach too, nor the brains to let our Generals fight the way it is needed. If it comes time for us to form the militias and fight as brothers, I am there, and so are many more.

It's more than nice to know that my feelings are shared by so many other folks--most of whom have served their nation longer and better than I.

For a long time I've become more and more alien to my (former) friends, and they to me. Unless there is something fundamentally different in how we make sense of things, I can only believe that they have never allowed themselves (never "lowered" themselves enough) to imagine what it would feel like to jump out of the Twin Towers to avoid being burned to death, and never listened to a man scream through his bleeding neck stump after being butchered before the camera.

Even my dear wife has begun to suspect that "Martin may be obsessing about this war and about combat." Why, she actually insists that I NOT have a loaded .45 at the dinner table! [So, I just carry it concealed.]

In a nutshell, thanks for making me feel less alone. And I am heartened to know that there are many other fellow hoplites in our country who are willing to defend our families, values, and freedoms.

But, for the record, I want to say that I did not write my Open Letter to Our Enemies to incite violence; and I do not advocate taking any illegal actions. [I'm sure you understand...]

I was writing to express the burning rage I feel every time another of our soldiers is killed and every time politicians, media heads, and academics discredit our nation and weaken our morale. I was writing what I believe will happen if our enemies attack us again.

Later,

MK

not sure what to say...sounds like revenge still burns the same red color in our eyes...

Patriotism has reached an all-new stupidity...er...high with this fellow. Keep up the good work. And remember, Americans are inherently better than people in other countries simply because we're American

Horsefeathers: "
Fighting folly, ignorance, and cant."

Are you kidding? Isn't that Stephen guy a professor at UNCW in Wilmington, NC?
There's no fighting that ignorance.

Great post I really loved it and many thanks to Vilmar at BMEWS for the link.

Thought you might appreciate this!

I have a question. Who is your post addressed to? A religion? A government (s)? Or just anyone with a funny last name? I really can't tell.

Good luck with all the killing and burning.

How many friends and relatives do you have? Consider for a moment the closest 3000 people to you. Once you have pictured as many as you can... erase them in your mind. Remove them from life... All of them. Then consider the mindset that caused the destruction of this many americans on 9/11. Now think what you will about these enemies of America. Still want to reason with em... Negotiate... Beg France and Germany for a slot on their diplomatic dance card.

Just remember Senator Kennedy and Kerry, this branch of Islam believes it proper to kill all others until there is no god but Allah. Killing is an act of piety.

Ted, you are either for us or against us.

And you fucking morons have the gall to call people on the left crazy. Guess what assholes, we all want revenge for 9/11, even the 'anti-american' professors. Thank god the morons that run this page, that wrote that letter, that link to that letter, and on and on and on are NOT involved in policymaking. Even the most hawkish neocon would laugh at you fucking idiots and the bile you spew. You think you're Captain America? Captain America would never confuse free speech and treason and you reveal yourself to be a fucking nutjob with ZERO concept of what it actually means to be an american. I own a gun. I hate the terrists. And I lost someone on 9/11. And I can definitely say, without a shadow of a doubt, that America is more endangered by YOU than by any outside forces. Go back to your bunker you fucking hateful fearful piece of shit.

This is exactly why the u.n. and the other communist-lefties in our Gov't want Gun Control. They ultimately won't be satisfied until all weapons are outlawed for us law abiding God fearing citizens.

Nevermind the criminals and terrorist with easy access to the same or worse weapons willing to use them at a whim to rob and kill for drugs, or even for the perverted Mooslim who wants to get his shot with 72 virgins.

I don't really care which category they fall in, whether they be a run of the mill murderer or wack-job Islamo-Muslim-Terrorist...if you come at me, I will be armed, and you will die.

Obviously, post 9/11 - The world changed for a lot of us here in America.

I just want to point out to all the lefties in this forum who are blinded by their own liberal tendencies and who still don't understand the severity of the current times in which we live. These muslim extremists want to wipe out any non-muslims from the face of the earth? They won't stop until they achieve this goal or until they are desimated by us.

These muslims even want to wipe out 'simpathizers' living among us within our own country. This means you Dan Rather, this also means you Habib at the local 7-11, this also means you Jimmah Carter, this also means you Nancy Pelosi - sorry, they don't negotiate. They won't be bribed. Too bad for Clinton, that was his strongsuit.

For once and all it is time for all Americans to decide. You have two choices... Grab Your Nuts, or Grab Your Ankles. Which way is it going to be. The hippie-days of koombaya are over, junior.

I'll be in the later category standing shoulder to shoulder with Mr. Kozloff, RangerLee, Magnus and other people willing to put it all on the line to protect our country from the true enemies, outside and within.

Thank you again, Mr. Kozloff. You are a true American, and I am proud as hell to have you on my side.

AD MOORE

you forgot to add:

"Oh and in case you animals get any ideas about how you will be venerated in death, try to remember the job to tending your graves will be given to a large overweight Jewish woman who will make it her job to piss on your graves every day to ensure the grass does grow green over your heads.

( nice work Doc!, type this up and tape it to the back of that picture of cybil shepard that was making the rounds the other day and wed have a good psywar leaflette to drop by the millions for afghanistan and the al-anbar area of iraq.)

RangerLee preach it brutha! If it comes down to the militias cleaning up the mess, me & my guns are in.

Hoplite, huh? I suppose if you want to run around with a spear and a funny helmet on Oct 31 it's fine with me.

The delicate, easily offended sensibilities of you contemporary liberal-leftists would have been shocked, just shocked by Churchill's words about the Germans: the "deadly, drilled, docile, brutal mass of the Hun soldiery plodding on like a swarm of crawling locusts." How dehumanizing! How racist! How un-empathic! And what to make of his blood curdling: "If this long island story of ours is to end at last, let it end only when each one of us lies choking in his own blood upon the ground." Fortunately, the appeasers of Churchill's day were defeated by the warrior spirit. While the impulse to appease lives on in the shape of Kerry and his natural EUnuch constituency it will be defeated again--on Nov.2.

Appease who? Shoot what?

In your masturbatory froth of unfocused rage, not a one of you spends a single moment trying to locate or identify the enemy. Liberals aren't different from you because they like terrorists. Liberals are different from you because they know that not everyone who wears a turban is a terrorist.

You want to err on the side of killing everyone brown, or who speaks in Arabic, or lives in the Middle East (hint: most Muslims don't live in the Middle East), or any other ridiculous standard you make up?

Then you're just unAmerican murderous idiots, and should be dealt with as such.

Mighty violent and hateful comments from some folks who appear to be opposed to violence and hate.

One searches in vain for rational argument from folks who appear not to like what they consider to be nonrationality in the letter.

One is puzzled. Perplexed. Indeed, belwildered.

One ponders. One muses. One speculates. One doesn't get it.

So, one reloads and returns to more fruitful endeavors.

I have been a lifelong democrat, and before 9/11 I would have been appalled at the ideas expressed in this letter. But after seeing the people jumping from the burning buildings, after crying while watching the families of the victims telling their stories, and after contemplating the insanity of the muslim terrorist cause, I can understand the appeal of what you say.

Muslims who support life in a modern peaceful world must denounce the terrorists who try to hide among them. Muslims who want their children and grandchildren to live in a peaceful, modern, tolerant world, must help eradicate the rot that has grown within their religion, within their cultures.

The author of the letter is a repugnant xenophobic fuckwit.

The folks cheering him on here are repugnant fuckwits as well.

It's funny reading the crap on this blog. Y'all are bunch of real tough guys crouched behind you're M1 keyboards slinging your bile and hatred towards any and all Muslims. You buy Chimpy McCokespoon's horseshit lies and bravado over Iraq and probably couldn't find Iraq on an unlabled globe to save your life.

You talk big but you loudmouths would wilt in basic training much less having someone firing at you in actual combat.

Fuckwits all of you..

What are your brains for, or haven't you got any? It's so deplorable, all of you. You're just a bunch of simpletons. Call me a hippie, but hatred leads nowhere - at least not to a rational solution. If Bush gets reelected, I'm out of here. The world would be much safer without him and his crazy gang of war worshippers. Oh, last thing: If there weren't a Bush occupying the White House in 2001, there wouldn't have been a 9/11. Fact. Ask the CIA. I think Gore would at least read the CIA reports about Bin laden's plans. But, y'know, Bush is not really into reading...

Just a quick line, not all Muslims are like the extremists, I was in Bosnia on 9/11, and watched the towers fall on TV 15:00 that afternoon. The units represented by the U.S. forces started anti terrorist operations soon after that, I know of at least two Al Qa’ida operatives bagged that during that rotation, the funny thing was that they weren’t turned in by the Serbs, or Croats, they were turned over by their fellow Muslims, because they remembered that it was the U.S. that stopped the Serbs from completing the ethnic cleansing of Muslims in Bosnia. So please don’t blame all Muslims, just the extremist ones who preach hate in the name of Allah, but then again, there are others who also do that in the name of their god, and I can tolerate them either.

Oh Claire (Ass Hat), I think I remember that there were attacks against the World trade Center in 94, and a whole lot of U.S. embassies, and U.S. property the nest 8 years, while Clinton was in office Bush had nothing to do with that, got an answer? Don’t blame Bush Sr. you libs blamed everything that went wrong the first 6 years of Clintons administration, you can’t answer, there is no answer. So to your thinking, it was Clintons fault for 9/11, because Bush hadn’t been in office for even 1 year.

Bruno -- Clinton put all the perps of the '93 WTC attack behind bars.

W was warned about about al Qaeda "flying airplanes into buildings", and decided to spend the month of August 2001 at his ranch.

Oh yeah...where's Osama?

Bob, um, but there were attacks... right, and the only ones he put behind bars, were the few he caught in the U.S.... but what about the other ones? OH YEA HE GOT LIL WILLIE PLAYED WITH WHILE THAT WAS HAPPENING...
Question... there’s going to be a robbery in your city in the next 72 days... can you stop it? NO YOU CAN’T, YOU DON’T KNOW WHERE IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN, SO YOU CAN’T STOP IT CAN YOU! Vague predictions don’t make fact, and the Ohhhh he lied… suck it up your mad because we didn’t surrender to the terrorists, aren’t you.

good to see that you guys will be putting those guns to good use killing "our enemies".

your super-happy-radioactive-magic-vision goggles that can distinguish brown enemies from brown friends may be useful as well.

I posted this on the other thread but this one seems to be getting more traffic.

But, for the record, I want to say that I did not write my Open Letter to Our Enemies to incite violence; and I do not advocate taking any illegal actions.

Then what the hell was this letter about, you advocated all kinds of illegal actions, see below.

If you really want rational responses to this hate-filled un-American, racist screed, here goes:

One day soon, our planes and missiles will begin turning your mosques, your madrasses, your hotels, your government offices, your hideouts, and your
neighborhoods into rubble.

Okay, here he is encouraging the bombing of civilian areas and the slaughter of non-combatants. A clear violation of the Geneva convention. Remember how upset you were about Kerry accusing American soldiers of doing this in Vietnam.

As cowards, you will have your hands in the air and you will get on your knees begging for mercy. And we will instead give you justice.

I assume he is encouraging soldiers to kill both combatants and non-combatants who are attempting to surrender. This is another serious breach of the Geneva conventions and the UCMJ and will subject our soldiers to criminal charges of murder.

We will burn your mosques.

This is arson under state laws, a hate crime in many states, and a federal crime under a law passed a couple years ago that made the arson of a place of worship a federal crime.

We will invade the offices of pro-arab-muslim organizations, destroy them, and drag their officers outside.

Again a felony in all fifty states, a hate-crime in many, assault and battery at the very least.

We will tell the chancellors of universities either to muzzle or remove anti American professors, whose hatred for their own country we have tolerated only
because we place a higher value on freedom of speech. But we will no longer tolerate treason.

Well nobody has repealed the first amendment yet, so this is premature. Treason is strictly defined in the Constitution and requires an overt act precisely because the framers were very concerned about the abuse of the sedition and treason laws by the British. I wish people would be a lot more careful about throwing around the word treason. At least read the Constitution's definition of treason (Article III, Section 3) before you start throwing the accusation around.

My wife is currently stationed in Kuwait. This kind of posting makes her job more difficult because it reinforces the image of Americans as Crusaders who are in the middle east to destroy islam. You sir, with all due respect, are the true danger to our troops and I am sure your letter will be a very effective recruiting tool for terrorists.

I (boldface) advocated nothing. I (boldface) said what I thought was happening and was going to happen even more if we were attacked again.

Perhaps instead of attacking me (which is okay if you need a target) why not discuss the issues? For example,

At what point or under what conditions will citizens begin to form militias to protect themselves?

When is it a good/bad thing for them to do so?

Under what conditions will citizens take the law into their own hands, as they say?

When is this a good/bad thing to do?

Under what conditions will citizens violate what had been their own moral code (such as not harming noncombatants) in order to protect themselves.

Under what conditions do ordinary persons begin to see themselves as soldiers?

These questions are more important than whether I am (or you are) the bigger fuckwit.

[The answers aren't to be found in psychopathology or assholosity. And it really isn't helpful to act as if the lines are drawn between those who were in the service and those who weren't. In fact, I was. So what?]

It's getting worse, because things are getting better. The increased violence is demonstrating that the terrorists fear what is coming.

Posted by: Chuck at September 27, 2004 04:52 PM

and up is the new down?
are you going to rid the world of all the darkies? cause they tried that you know, and its just that theres so many more of the black, brown and yellow people that it gets tiring after a while .... also the reason gun control exists is because certain people who shall go unnamed have itchy trigger fingers and may end up like po' ole dave down in waco for that

just sayin...

AL QAIDA DELENDA EST...AL QAIDA MUST BE DESTROYED.

Meanwhile, of course, military officers have complained that the pursuit of Al Qaeda and bin Laden in Afghanistan has stalled. The reason - the troops and resources necessary to continue to occupy Iraq...

After 9/11 I woke up and started building up my own collection of military style firearms.

ANd how many hijacked 747s have you managed to shoot down with them so far?

Just curious...

How many friends and relatives do you have? Consider for a moment the closest 3000 people to you. Once you have pictured as many as you can... erase them in your mind. Remove them from life... All of them. Then consider the mindset that caused the destruction of this many americans on 9/11.

More than ten times as many Iraqis have been killed by Americans in pursuit of a lie.

You talk about your right to revenge - do Iraqis have an equal right to seek revenge, to shoot at American soldiers in their country? To attack America itself if they are able?

If this was my kid, I'd want bloody revenge. I imagine you would too.

"At what point or under what conditions will citizens begin to form militias to protect themselves?"

That is exactly what the people of Iraq are doing. So, I guess the answer to your question is, it's already happened.

"When is it a good/bad thing for them to do so?"

When a foreign power invades your country and kills your women, children and elderly, and generally tortures your populace. The Iraqi people are as justified as any militia group.

"Under what conditions will citizens take the law into their own hands, as they say?"

See above. The Iraqi people already have.

"Under what conditions will citizens violate what had been their own moral code (such as not harming noncombatants) in order to protect themselves."

You mean, violate their own moral code like killing innocent noncombatants? Like the heinous murder of the mercs in Fallujah? Or the regular beheading we see on TV today? Done, done and done.

"Under what conditions do ordinary persons begin to see themselves as soldiers?"

Again, see Iraq. Now.

"These questions are more important than whether I am (or you are) the bigger fuckwit."

After looking at your questions and the very real answers that the Iraqi people are providing... I'd say you would be perfectly situated to empathize with them. Of course, you've only had to experience one disastrous day of the enemy attacking your home land and killing your compatriots. The Iraqis have suffered for over a year with several orders of magnitude higher casualties.

So when are you guys going over to Iraq? Are you all getting a posse together to kill Arabs/Muslims? What about the Christian Muslims, we can be just like the crusaders and kill all of them! Except we won't lose this time.

Who knows how to fly? A buddy has some cropdusters and one even has a Lear, I'm sure we can drop some incendiaries from them on Damascus and Cairo. Burn, Baby, Burn! Or should I say Burn, Arab, Burn?

Lets get away from these keyboards and lock and load!

Seriously, you peole are morons. This is the most anti-American shit I have read in a long while. Americans don't indiscriminately kill. We get the bad guys and try to make those who have suffered enjoy a better life. Too bad I have to share this country with you. Get a time machine and go back to Nazi Germany where you belong!

That is a very reasonable argument, Morpheus, but...

1. Isn't it true that (many, most) of the so-called insurgents are not ordinary Iraqi's fighting against what they see as an invasion by us, but are instead Baathists, and imports from Iran and Syria, who (if they want us out) want us out so THEY can take over and either re-install a new boss (same as the old boss) or install a Taliban?

2. Isn't it true that (many, most) ordinary Iraqis support our overthrow of Hussein and are themselves against the so-called insurgents? Surely there is plenty of evidence to support that claim, and to refute it you'd have to call a lot of Iraqis liars.

[In other words, I don't think the analogy holds.]

3. But let's say you are right. Ordinary Iraqis are fighting against us, just as American militias fought the British.

Still...

a. We did not go there to take the country, or even to to protect ourselves from wpm, but to take out the strong man in the Arab world, and show the rest how easily it could be done (at least that's how I see it).

b. If you think it is reasonable for ordinary Iraqis to rise against what they see as their destroyers, then why isn't it just as reasonable for us to rise against OURS (al qaida, etc.--not ordinary Iraqis)?

You all might be wondering why we're being hit with all of these foul mouthed leftists all of the sudden.

This should answer your question:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2424889

Oh it's more than just that URL that you've posted, anonymous. You'll be surprised to hear that you've become famous all over the blogosphere. You might even ask Mr Horsefeathers to post the stats some time soon, I think you'll be impressed at how far your sweet young opinions have been travelling.

So the professor saw the US attack on Saddam as intended "to take out the strong man in the Arab world, and show the rest how easily it could be done" did he? More than a little sad on a few levels and, if this is "easy", this conflict that has seen him so personally upset that he's thrown up into print the opinions above on this page, then I'm sure he can't cope with "hard".

My goodness....no wonder the world hates America enough to think you lot got what you deserved on 9/11 with all the hate you lot spout you just confirm thay you are a load of red necks with a crap aim....put your guns down children before you shoot your toes off. Grow up and realise that you are no better than some and loads worse than others, your president and the british blair have made the world a far worse place to be alive in not safer as they would like us to believe.

My goodness....no wonder the world hates America enough to think you lot got what you deserved on 9/11 with all the hate you lot spout you just confirm thay you are a load of red necks with a crap aim....put your guns down children before you shoot your toes off. Grow up and realise that you are no better than some and loads worse than others, your president and the british blair have made the world a far worse place to be alive in not safer as they would like us to believe.

I'll address a couple more of your issues that you raised. But first I must address the general tone of your post of 12:43 AM which challenged us "fuckwits" to discuss the issues rather than attack you. I believe that my post that immediately prededed yours did specifically address the issues raised in your letter and your rather specious argument that you were not advocating or inciting violence (I assume a lawyer friend of yours urged you to post that caveat). The only personal attack I launched was to call you un-American and racist. I realize racist is technically not correct since you seem to hate muslims, or maybe just arabs, which would make you anti-semitic (except for Jews). But we'll just change it to anti-muslim.

I would also be very cautious about the brothers in arms you have found in your little race war. As a Jew, and I only say you are a Jew because I read it on the web which is notoriously inaccurate, you should know that Christians and "Christian" countries have committed a lot more crimes against your people than Muslim countries ever had. Although in the last 60 years the Muslim countries are working hard to catch up with us (meaning "Christian nations"). But in this country, the extreme Christian Right (e.g., the KKK, the Militia Movement, and Christian Identity) are a much bigger threat to Jews than the Muslims are. After all the Jews are in league with the "mud people" and the U.N. to foist race mixing and a world government on the U.S. If you don't believe me, I can point you to a whole bunch of web sites that will scare you to death. And once the race war starts, they are going to turn on the Jews real quick after they finish off the Muslims and the Blacks.

Perhaps a reworking of of Martin Niemoeller's famous quote is appropriate in this instance:

First they came for the Muslims, but I did not speak up because I was not a Muslim;
Then they came for the liberals, but I did not speak up because I was not a liberal;
Then they came for the Catholics, but I did not speak up because I was not a Catholic;
Then they came for the Jews, I was a Jew, but alas, there was no one left to speak up for me.

Now to your points:

Under what conditions will citizens take the law into their own hands, as they say?

When is this a good/bad thing to do?

When citizens take the law into their own hands it ceases to be the law and it is always a bad thing. Law cannot exist without government authority.

Under what conditions do ordinary persons begin to see themselves as soldiers?

Hopefully never. There are federal and international laws prohibiting "ordinary persons" being soldiers for very good reasons. Soldiers have a very grave and awesome responsibilty. They are the agents of the most deadly manifestation of the government's foreign policy and ordinary persons cannot usurp that role. If you feel so strongly about it, their are recruiting stations all over the place and they are not turning people away. I think for enlist you need to be between 18 and 35 and the will take you up to age 41 or 42 as an officer.

Prof. KOzloff asks:

"1. Isn't it true that (many, most) of the so-called insurgents are not ordinary Iraqi's fighting against what they see as an invasion by us, but are instead Baathists, and imports from Iran and Syria, who (if they want us out) want us out so THEY can take over and either re-install a new boss (same as the old boss) or install a Taliban?"

Why don't you waddle off to your local recruitment office, go over there, and find out?

"2. Isn't it true that (many, most) ordinary Iraqis support our overthrow of Hussein and are themselves against the so-called insurgents? Surely there is plenty of evidence to support that claim, and to refute it you'd have to call a lot of Iraqis liars."

Rather than live in your fantasy world (of George Bush's concoction), why don't you waddle off to your local recruitment office, go over there, and find out?

Seriously, you missed a few in your list of 'traitors' aka Kennedy, Kerry, Clark et al. You see, Lindsey Graham, John McCain, Chuck Hagel, Joe Biden, several Republican House reps ... HAVE ALL GONE OVER THERE ... and guess what, they've reported that George Bush is indeed living in a fantasy world. Just. Like. You.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/lorentz1.html

http://www.exile.ru/2003-July-10/war_nerd.html

Revenge is nice guys but revenge and crusades do not a strong country make. If we go with your rage, America will become a dimininshed nation. It has already begun ...

This "open letter" is an argument for a genocidal reaction. You don't need to think twice about words like "transport" to see it.

When Horsefeathers first posted this without any comment, it implicitly endorsed its content. In another thread, Horsefeathers responded to someone who recommended a book by Eric Alterman as having "taken off his mask," supposedly revealing himself to be anti-American in the process. (That commenter was subsequently banned from further comments.)

The masks are clearly off: Horsefeathers is that most vile of species, a genocidal fascist wannabe.

Wow, my post got magically erased. Truth hurts, or it was just an honest mistake...so here goes again:

George W. Bush has killed three times as many civilians as Osama Bin Laden. That makes: 1) Bush 3x the war criminal, or 2) The lives of people with brown skin worth 1/3 that of people with white, and despicable racists out of y'all.

The war in Iraq is unwinnable because it is based on fear, not on justice. The rest of the world knows it, and none of your ranting is going to change it.

Here is a description from a soldier on the ground in Iraq. This is someone who is actually over there doing his countries work as opposed to you, sitting at home in front of your keyboard, fantasizing about killing muslims. Listen carefully:

***************************

link

"I have come to the conclusion that we cannot win here for a number of reasons. Ideology and idealism will never trump history and reality.

When we were preparing to deploy, I told my young soldiers to beware of the "political solution." Just when you think you have the situation on the ground in hand, someone will come along with a political directive that throws you off the tracks.

I believe that we could have won this un-Constitutional invasion of Iraq and possibly pulled off the even more un-Constitutional occupation and subjugation of this sovereign nation. It might have even been possible to foist democracy on these people who seem to have no desire, understanding or respect for such an institution. True the possibility of pulling all this off was a long shot and would have required several hundred billion dollars and even more casualties than we?ve seen to date but again it would have been possible, not realistic or necessary but possible.

Here are the specific reasons why we cannot win in Iraq.

First, we refuse to deal in reality. We are in a guerilla war, but because of politics, we are not allowed to declare it a guerilla war and must label the increasingly effective guerilla forces arrayed against us as "terrorists, criminals and dead-enders."

This implies that there is a zero sum game at work, i.e. we can simply kill X number of the enemy and then the fight is over, mission accomplished, everybody wins. Unfortunately, this is not the case. We have few tools at our disposal and those are proving to be wholly ineffective at fighting the guerillas.

The idea behind fighting a guerilla army is not to destroy its every man (an impossibility since he hides himself by day amongst the populace). Rather the idea in guerilla warfare is to erode or destroy his base of support.

So long as there is support for the guerilla, for every one you kill two more rise up to take his place. More importantly, when your tools for killing him are precision guided munitions, raids and other acts that create casualties among the innocent populace, you raise the support for the guerillas and undermine the support for yourself. (A 500-pound precision bomb has a casualty-producing radius of 400 meters minimum; do the math.)

Second, our assessment of what motivates the average Iraqi was skewed, again by politically motivated "experts." We came here with some fantasy idea that the natives were all ignorant, mud-hut dwelling camel riders who would line the streets and pelt us with rose petals, lay palm fronds in the street and be eternally grateful. While at one time there may have actually been support and respect from the locals, months of occupation by our regular military forces have turned the formerly friendly into the recently hostile.

Attempts to correct the thinking in this regard are in vain; it is not politically correct to point out the fact that the locals are not only disliking us more and more, they are growing increasingly upset and often overtly hostile. Instead of addressing the reasons why the locals are becoming angry and discontented, we allow politicians in Washington DC to give us pat and convenient reasons that are devoid of any semblance of reality.

We are told that the locals are not upset because we have a hostile, aggressive and angry Army occupying their nation. We are told that they are not upset at the police state we have created, or at the manner of picking their representatives for them. Rather we are told, they are upset because of a handful of terrorists, criminals and dead enders in their midst have made them upset, that and of course the ever convenient straw man of "left wing media bias."

Third, the guerillas are filling their losses faster than we can create them. This is almost always the case in guerilla warfare, especially when your tactics for battling the guerillas are aimed at killing guerillas instead of eroding their support. For every guerilla we kill with a "smart bomb" we kill many more innocent civilians and create rage and anger in the Iraqi community. This rage and anger translates into more recruits for the terrorists and less support for us.

We have fallen victim to the body count mentality all over again. We have shown a willingness to inflict civilian casualties as a necessity of war without realizing that these same casualties create waves of hatred against us. These angry Iraqi citizens translate not only into more recruits for the guerilla army but also into more support of the guerilla army.

Fourth, their lines of supply and communication are much shorter than ours and much less vulnerable. We must import everything we need into this place; this costs money and is dangerous. Whether we fly the supplies in or bring them by truck, they are vulnerable to attack, most especially those brought by truck. This not only increases the likelihood of the supplies being interrupted. Every bean, every bullet and every bandage becomes infinitely more expensive.

Conversely, the guerillas live on top of their supplies and are showing every indication of developing a very sophisticated network for obtaining them. Further, they have the advantage of the close support of family and friends and traditional religious networks.

Fifth, we consistently underestimate the enemy and his capabilities. Many military commanders have prepared to fight exactly the wrong war here.

Our tactics have not adjusted to the battlefield and we are falling behind.

Meanwhile the enemy updates his tactics and has shown a remarkable resiliency and adaptability.

Because the current administration is more concerned with its image than it is with reality, it prefers symbolism to substance: soldiers are dying here and being maimed and crippled for life. It is tragic, indeed criminal that our elected public servants would so willingly sacrifice our nation's prestige and honor as well as the blood and treasure to pursue an agenda that is ahistoric and un-Constitutional.

It is all the more ironic that this un-Constitutional mission is being performed by citizen soldiers such as myself who swore an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States, the same oath that the commander in chief himself has sworn.

September 20, 2004"

Bob thats just brilliant logic. Mind if I try it on? So.. if using your logic Bush is a war criminal for the approx. 10 thousand Iraqi lives lost removing Saddam. Then considering that Saddam murdered approx 70,000 Iraqis per year. Those who opposed removing him and would have perpetuated murder on that scale are guilty of conspiracy to commit crimes against humanity.
Fair enough?

Not like I should be surprised or anything that people are cynically taking advantage of the increase in violence to further their own ends. But was it or was it not a forgone conclusion that as our elections approached. The islamo-fascists would step up the brutality. Likewise with the elections in Iraq.

Yes I believe it was. In fact i believe the handover in June was done on the sly in order to avoid just this type of increased brutality. It was mentioned more than a few times back when the handover occurred that we should expect a dramatic increase in violence around the US elections continuing through to the January Iraqi elections. For any one to be shocked! SHOCKED! at whats going on, then attempt to portray it as some unexpected turn for the worse is the ultimate example of cheap, cynical, political opportunism.

MS

Wow. You are an asshole.

I'm sitting here in Kandahar, Afghanistan right now, struggling to undo the work of terrible people who screwed over not only their entire nation, but their own religion as well. If the author of this mini-Mein Kampf would act like a man and put on a uniform like me, he could come over here and see that there Muslims are people not unlike us.

Well, the ones I meet here are unlike the author of the post above. I respect them.

Kandahar? Hell, they could just go to Brooklyn or Dearborn and see that, Terry. (Thank you for your service, by the way.)

Isn't Kozlhoff the same professor who was whining about poor 'winger college students being discriminated against because they can't practice racism and homophobia without being criticized for it?

Yay Mike! Lock up Saddam AND Bush!!

The author of this letter is obviously disturbed and clearly needs immediate medical help, as do many of the authors of these comments. We have many advances in medical science, including several anti-pyschotic medications.

Spoken like a good Germa...er Loyal Party Member...er I mean Patriotic American...yaeh, that's it...

Seriously, jingoistic crap like this makes the jobs of those fighting the real terrorists much harder and damages the image of all real American Patriots. Well done, whackjob...

Mike,
Saddam killed 70,000 a year? Where is your source for that? I'm pretty sure that number isn't even close to correct.

great post! so when may we expect you to sign up for active duty in Iraq? Actions speak a LOT louder than words, professor.

what a malignant bunch of fucks...to think that Kozloff has managed to pass himself as some form of educator...unless one realizes that he "teaches" in NC...diss who or diss that, huh? You all need serious work done on your collective heads...but try pulling them out of your collective asses first...that may help...morons

I'm more likely to get attacked by the likes of these wingnuts than the terrorists.

So I guess I'm arming myself.

You "Americans" that like this letter are some sick mother fuckers. I bet you look at the Bill of Rights and only see one amendment, the 2d, in there. Open your eyes and take some Valium, breath deep and stop clenching the pistol grips of your assault rifles.

Four years of total Repub Bullshit, control of all Congress, White House, Supreme Court, and the press, and they are still mad. Unbelievable. Get some therapy, guys.

At least The Professor's wife was sensible enough to prohibit his setting his pistol on the table during dinner.

Burp!

So Martin,
How are you in any way morally distinguishable from Yasir Arafat or the Ayatollah Khomeni? You advocate terrorism against the innocent because you are frustrated in your ability to punish the guilty.

Yes, it is much easier to burn down mosques and beat up reporters and University professors than to kill terrorists. It is easier to blow up the city of Fallujah and kill all of the innocent Iraqis therein than to find and fight Iraqis who plant IEDs. Just as it was easier to kidnap and hold hostage the staff at the American Embassy in Tehran than to combat the American army. Just as it is easier to blow up buses packed full of innocent Israelis than to fight the IDF.

You are a terrorist. You just haven't acted yet. It is terrorists who hate America.

You may counter that you only want to do these things to America's enemies. Where are the "America's enemies only" mosques for us to burn down? Is the city of Fallujah entirely populated by those who are America's enemies. While I'm sure every resident of Fallujah hates America, that does not make them enemies who deserve to die.

The terrorists are our enemies. We should do what needs to be done to make ourselves secure. But the damage they can do is small compared to the damage people like you do. It is people like you, who advocate terrorism, who equate dissent with treason, who are un-American. People like you are trying to make us into Iran. You advocate dissent be met with angry mobs, just like in Iran. Nothing could be more un-American than that.

"In a nutshell, thanks for making me feel less alone."
-Martin Kozloff

Yes Martin, you and your buds should feel right at hom in a nutshell.

I think the funniest part of this whole post is that it was filed in the 'culture' section of this blog. If fantasizing about crimes against humanity is culture, then Hitler was one cultured guy.

You all are totally insane.

I noticed most of the postings start off:

After 9/11, I realized that I am an ignorant goon who believe that a strange religion that I know nothing about and would care not to learn about, ruined my life. Instead of realizing that a group of extremist attacked my country, I am of a mind (that is if I have one) that we must kill all Muslims because violence against everyone who I deem responsible including those who are innocent is always the right answer.

You are all a bunch of insane retards.

Wow, was that post for real?

I mean, that was impressive.

That is, it was impressive if your point was to make us Americans look like the ignorant, crusading ass-monkeys the rest of the world sees us as....

Nice job, Professor!

Support the troops! Enlist.

I remember a similar quote:

Once I really am in power, my first and foremost task will be the annihilation of the Jews. As soon as I have the power to do so, I will have gallows built in rows - at the Marienplatz in Munich, for example - as many as traffic allows.

Then the Jews will be hanged indiscriminately, and they will remain hanging until they stink; they will hang there as long as the principles of hygiene permit. As soon as they have been untied, the next batch will be strung up, and so on down the line, until the last Jew in Munich has been exterminated. Other cities will follow suit, precisely in this fashion, until all Germany has been completely cleansed of Jews.

Wow.

Tough talkers to be sure. But sadly you guys apparantly can't locate a recruiting office.

What gives?

You guys should join the Marines.. prove your mettle and show off your gun skills by actually fighting for the country.

Do something actually constructive instead of target shooting and spreading your hate and bigotry. Making idle threats is for girly men.

I doubt you'd be able to cut it though. My experience with guys like you is that you have a chip on your shoulder. Compensating for something... you got no game with the ladies... if you had a life you'd be happier, probably.

You would have been Hitler's most loyal supporters in another time and place....

America, the only country to have gone from the initial stage of colonisation, to the final stages of degradation without ever experiencing the intervening stage of civilisation.

What a jackass. And this was written by a professor? I thought bigotry and hatred was reserved for the bad guys, perhaps it should be fair to note that the nation of islam is not made up of terrorists, there are terrorists who are islamic people, as well as jewish people, christian people, black people, white people, should I go on. I suppose by this guy's stupid rationale that non-muslim terrorists are friends to this country. Maybe we should've granted McVeigh a reprieve because he was just a good christian boy having some fun. It's unbelievable that folks with these backward ideals can work and function in society. OR was this just a joke? Because then it's funny, because there are people that actually think like this and they make stupid jokes too.

So, when do you cunts sign up and go fight your enemies in Iraq? After all, your President is using that country as flypaper to attract every Islamic terrorist in the world. Why don't y'all enlist and kill a bunch of Islamofascists, before you start torching all the mosques and madrassas in this country? After all, once Bush steals another election, I sure he'll be more than happy to help you initiate your very own Night of the Long Knives on all the nasty towelheads in your hometown.

I am so disheartened, but not surprised, by what is happening.

How long did democracy last in Greece? Not long.

Or Rome? Not long.

Why? They stopped DOING democracy and started doing class/group warfare. They tried to defend their own positions and not work for the good of the whole.

I can barely stand the amount of conflict among our own citizenry over this war. Instead of examining as much evidence as possible and then making reasoned decisions, each side--hawk and dove--merely advances its pre-estabished position and attacks the other side. This, I feel, is tearing our country apart. It also means that sheer power, rather than democratic processes, will decide our nation's future.

I wish to make it clear that...

The letter was NOT my opinion.

I was NOT advocating ANYTHING in that letter.

The letter was sociological in intent. It was a literary device to get readers to examine their own assumptions.

I have NO hatred of Arabs or Muslims in general--only killers, as clearly stated in the letter.

I do not advocate killing anyone or burning anything. I do not consider Arabs or Muslims to be roaches. I do not advocate killing people who beg for mercy. I do not advocate muzzling professors. Anyone who knows me, knows the truth of what I just said.

The letter was expressing the feelings and drives of what I see in more and more Americans.

I did not sign my name to it precisely because it did NOT represent my opinion.

When read dispassionately, it should be clear that when the words "arab muslim" were used , they referred to people designed as "our enemies"--NOT to all Arabs and Muslims merely. The letter also made it quite clear that "arab muslims" and "our enemies" were the people (called "you," again and again in the letter) who are engaged in beheading, raping, mutilating, burning, hanging, and bombing.

Further evidence that the letter was a device designed to get people to face their own assumptions and feelings, was that I SAID EXACTLY THAT on websites where it was originally posted. [I did not first put a link to it on the University website.]

For example, I wrote this in the "Comments" section of the Horsefeathers websiste...

"I was writing what I believe will happen if our enemies attack us again."

Again...

"I (boldface) advocated nothing. I (boldface) said what I thought was happening and was going to happen even more if we were attacked again.
"Perhaps instead of attacking me (which is okay if you need a target) why not discuss the issues? For example,

"At what point or under what conditions will citizens begin to form militias to protect themselves?

"When is it a good/bad thing for them to do so?

"Under what conditions will citizens take the law into their own hands, as they say?

"When is this a good/bad thing to do?

"Under what conditions will citizens violate what had been their own moral code (such as not harming noncombatants) in order to protect themselves.

"Under what conditions do ordinary persons begin to see themselves as soldiers?

"These questions are more important than whether I am (or you are) the bigger %$$wit."

Clearly, these are sociological questions. Had I been the sort of racist war hawk that anodyne web asserts, I would not have raised those sociological questions; I would simply have attacked other commenters.

I posted the faked position on the Horsefeathers webiste because I thought it would enable us to discuss in a more rational way how we as a country may be changing--for the worse.

If anyone continues to believe that I was intended to incite violence or that I am a racist, they have only their own hardened positions to blame.

Well, Mr. Kozloff, it seems that, intent aside, you are a fool for thinking that the sort of complicated introspection that you apparently desire can be so easily spurred.

As for the rest of you, how many people died in the Oklahoma City bombing? Shall we kill all the white people? You are idiots, the lot of you.

You guys are fucking crazy wingnuts... I am a victim of 9/11 because my brother died. I hate terrorists and would gladly kill one, but I am not as stupid as the majority of contributors to this lousy blog. Hatred breeds hatred, and you guys have a lot of hate. Ignorance has taken over. Can you see the forest or just the trees? The problem is not arabs, nor muslims, the problem is that there is a group of people using the religion for their own purposes. Just like the radical Christians in this country {Radical anti-abortion terrorists like Eric Rudolph, etc.} Should we kill all christians because of that {personally I couldnt care less because of the way I feel about evangelical assholes}. I am very religious, my relationship with G*d is well established {I prayed for over 12 hours last Yom Kippur}.

But ARE YOU SERIOUS? Killing all those innocent people? Hatred has blinded your eyes, and I believe that all you hate-filled souls are on a one-way train to hell. I hope you enjoy your sentence burning in the pits of hell, because no religion has a G*d which supports killing innocent people. I love the USA, am a patriot and I believe that the US is worth fighting for, but I don't want to have to fight ignorant but-wipes like those hate-mongers who write about killing innocent people.

Please, take a prozac or something...

Michael

Well, I hope that you don't mind Professor if I email the letter to the Dean of your fine institution, because that's what I intend to do. And I am sure I won't be the only one who will do so.
What would happen if your boss knew that you were so fired about about killing Arabs?

I posted the faked position on the Horsefeathers webiste because I thought it would enable us to discuss in a more rational way how we as a country may be changing--for the worse.

Hold your fire, everyone!

Mr. Kozloff, am I correct in understanding that your letter was actually a satire of the kind of talk we hear from superpatriotic redneck hatemongers?

And that it has been spread around the internet out of context?

Is that the case? God, I hope so!

You can call the university of North Carolina at (910) 962-3000 or email them at admissions@uncw.edu and ask if all of their professors incite violence against brown people? I copied and pasted Mr. Kozloff's letter in the email.
It also makes a great gift.

I knew little about arab-muslim culture and believed that the developed nations were partly responsible for the poverty and authoritarian regimes that infest the middle east.

Things changed on 9/11/01 when you ruined the lives of at least 10,000 Americans.

These people instantly became my countrymen and you became my mortal enemy.

Ordinary Americans are arming themselves for war with you. I and many of my friends have closets full of handguns, rifles, shotguns and thousands of cartridges.

If we had enough ammunition and time, we would kill every last one of you.

We completely support our President and our armed forces. We only wish they would destroy you faster, but we are certain that they will.

Martin, Martin,

Don't try and back down now, this was the opening of your original letter. Your little probing questions were posted at 12:43 am on September 29, more than three days after the initial posting on Horsefeathers and after widespread dissemination on some leftwing blogs and I assume when you were beginning to feel some heat from the administration at your school. Apparently it is getting red hot now.

Shall I remind you of your post of 10:45 pm on Sept 27:

It's more than nice to know that my feelings are shared by so many other folks. . . .

In a nutshell, thanks for making me feel less alone. And I am heartened to know that there are many other fellow hoplites in our country who are willing to defend our families, values, and freedoms.

But, for the record, I want to say that I did not write my Open Letter to Our Enemies to incite violence; and I do not advocate taking any illegal actions. [I'm sure you understand...]

I was writing to express the burning rage I feel every time another of our soldiers is killed and every time politicians, media heads, and academics discredit our nation and weaken our morale.

And even your language has cleaned up! You were perfectly willing to use "fucked" in your original letter and call your opponents "fuckwits" in your original comments.

At least have the courage of your convictions. Didn't you expect this?

I'm a former Marine. The professor's plan - his mini-Mein Kampf- assigns to the US military a mission similar to that of the Wermacht/SS/Einsatzgruppen forces in Operation Barbarossa.

NEVER

Death Before Dishonor

Mr. Kozloff, am I correct in understanding that your letter was actually a satire of the kind of talk we hear from superpatriotic redneck hatemongers?

Don't believe him. Read the postings at the top of this thread and you will see he is trying to cover his ass but quick.

If Martin didn't expect this perhaps he's not really a professor.
Perhaps, as Martin so eloquently states in his letter to brown people, he underestimated Liberals. Perhaps it's Martin and not Arabs, who "HAS FUCKED WITH THE WRONG PEOPLE."
tsk tsk tsk. Live and learn I suppose.

Nice letter you have yourself there. You've achieved your goal if is was making more Americans sound retarded. Kudos!

he underestimated Liberals.

I believe the correct term is "misunderestimated"

All of this will be moot when the aliens come and castrate everyone. And to those of you who prefer death to castration and kill yourselves first, forget about it, because the aliens can bring you back to life with their technology and then castrate you anyways. So basically we are all screwed. During times like these, I repeat the following mantra, it is our only hope.

ROBOTS ARE OUR FRIENDS
ROBOTS ARE OUR FRIENDS
ROBOTS ARE OUR FRIENDS
ROBOTS ARE OUR FRIENDS
ROBOTS ARE OUR FRIENDS
ROBOTS ARE OUR FRIENDS
ROBOTS ARE OUR FRIENDS

Don't you think you're all overreacting a bit to this? When 9/11 happened I was watching it on a TV that had been turned on at the Sprint World headquarters in Kansas City. I was there standing with a guy who was from Syria. The moment it happened, someone suggested arab terrorists. They quickly looked at my friend who is anything but an extremist, and started making obscene remarks about muslims in general.
They didn't even know for sure yet if this was a terrorist act, but were quick to play the mob ruled bigot.
Let's not forget the federal building on Oklahoma City was destroyed by white, allegedly christian home grown 'heroes'. Women and children died there too but we didn't go around rounding up militias did we? Since 9/11 there have been more white, non-muslim, militia-like terrorist acts prevented in this county than muslim/arab terrorist acts.
Look it up folks.

We're better than this. Let calm and reason dictacte what we do. If that means killing them all then so be it, but don't let the bigot zenophobia drive your actions.
And don't let Bush and Cheney tell you what to do. Of the 19 hijackers, 15 were Saudis, and 0(zero) were Iraqi, yet did we attack Saudi Arabia? The number of connections, financing organizations, etc tying the Saudi Royal family to terrorism were 100X times what they claimed they had for Iraq, but did we attack Saudi Arabia?
Or how about the Carlyle Group? A private equity investment firm whose inner circle is made up of well known conservatives including such names as George H.W. Bush, and among others Osama Bin Laden family members.
So before you decide to go kill muslims, be aware that those you're killing in Saudi Arabia have closer ties to Bush than you or I do. Then we'll see just how much of an American Bush really is.
And don't expect Cheney to stop you either.
While VP of Haliburton in the 90's he did more business with Iraq and Iran than French companies ever did. Mostly rebuilding the oil infrastructure which was destroyed in the first gulf war(upon his orders as Sec. of Defense), and for whom was given the no-bid contracts to rebuild it yet another time after this new Iraq war(while Vice President).
Don't be fooled folks. You don't have to start buddying up to muslims, but be aware of the enemies in your own backyard as well.

You know what is really funny about this? The 9/11 attack was against us here in NYC; and the only thing most inbred gun-totin' rednecks hate more than foreigners are New Yorkers. You people don't give a damn about the people who died in the World Trade Center...you just want an excuse to hate something or somebody.

"Those who live by the sword, die by the sword"

My question to you whack-jobs is this... Why do you assume that those who are appalled by the hatred expressed here dont want to protect this great country? I have not heard one voice saying that we should succumb to terrorists? Not Kerry, not Kennedy, not a single person. So where do you get the nonsense, the utter lies, to go about saying that the Dems are for appeasing terrorists?

Once that is answered then maybe we can talk. But I, and all the Dems I associate with are talking about building a stronger America. Strength is not measured in military power alone. And I guess that is the part the Redneck, half-wit, dumb-fuck doesn't understand. Maybe if we destroy all of the middle east, and kill all the arabs, the problem will go away... Simple, clean, and utterly stooopid...

G*d gave humans brains, not to be sat upon, and not to be used as paper weights. You have a brain because you are supposed to be brighter than a doorknob. Why don't you start using that great grey matter and actually start trying to solve problems, instead of creating new ones. How do you defeat terrorism? By dropping more bombs, and killing more innocent people? I do not think so... Good intelligence, infiltration, and technology will certainly be a good step in the direction of reducing global terrorism.... Did I say capitulating to terrorists? I didn't think so... I think we should do as Israel does and target terrorist cells around the world, infiltrate them, and destroy them... This is a smart strategy, burning mosques and killing innocent people are STOOPID "solutions".

This is the primary problem, it seems that the repubs are good at getting STOOPID people to do their bidding. Anyone with half a brain can instrantly see through the brainwashing by using weighted and emotional arguments.

As I said before... I am sick of those who claim to care about those killed on 9/11... You are such bad liars. My brother, Jonathan Uman, was on the 105th floor of WTC tower 1 on 9/11.... He is dead now, he jumped from the tower. Take your tears somewhere where hate is appreciated. Your hatred is not appreciated by the families of 9/11. You are using my brother as a pawn in your game of religious warfare. I am greatly offended...

There is nothing noble about killing innocent people. You are hell-bound if you espouse killing people because of their religious beliefs...

I also ask you RAMBO fuckheads about how many muslims you actually know... Do you ever talk to muslims? I do... I work with many, and they are good people. Certain people hijack the religion to achieve their own power goals, sorta like the Christian Coalition or the Moral Majority {HAHAHAH}.. They have hijacked what could have been a good religion {christianity} and turned it into Satan incarnate. I have been a big supporter of SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE just because I feared that this Religious war would be predicated by such fervent Christians who want to bring about the end of the world...

Michael

Freder,

You're killing me dude.
Seriously, I hope you all got the email addy from my post above and emailed the University.
I know if I was his boss I would want to never turn my back to the guy. And if he has any Muslims students, the administration would surely want to outfit them with the latest Kevlar vests, the same ones that Bush never gave our military.

Martin,
Do not despair. Anyone with a minimal number of functioning Betz cells understands without any need for you to explain. Those who don't, have clearly demonstrated their preference for obscenity as a substitute for rational thought. This is the same crowd that froths over Bush=Hitler fantasies.

Kozloff, you are a fool for suggesting that your post was clear: there is a point where the aggression starts off as framed against terrorists, but it moves beyond that when you start talking about indiscrimately "transporting" arab-muslims to the desert and indiscriminately "raiding" arab charities. AND you're a jerk for trying to probe this way instead of just asking questions. Brainless.

Hell, Kozloff, now you're a flip-flopper. Or perhaps the meds are starting to kick in.

I see you are a professor of education (more or less). I shudder at the notion that you might ever be in any kind of proximity to children.

At any rate, since you've either calmed down or flip-flopped, take a minute to re-read your original screed. Tell us, honestly, what in that diatriabe indicates that your are any better a man than Osama bin Laden himself? (And btw, when was the last time you heard "our President" mention that name?)

Only difference between you and bin Laden is you're all talk.

I'm a democrat, but these idiots from DU make mental patients look sane. I think they need to see their doctors right away and get back on their medication.

Seriously, these too far left wingnuts are giving the democratic party and liberals in general a bad name. No wonder Kerry is behind. These idiots are driving voters away.

This place is the online equivalent of talk radio. Anyone can be an ass kickin' patriot with a storehouse full of weapons, just ready and waiting to shoot ya some ferners. But I'd just about bet the farm that you idiots would piss yourselves if you had to actually put your money where your mouth is. Have fun playing John Wayne, dipshits.

All you phony people, phony phony phony, who use 9/11 as the jumping off point for your insanity.
Yet Michael, who suffered, truly suffered loss from 9/11 is the most rational person on this site.
He is not advocating hatred. But he is taking you to task for your own. WE could learn from people like Michael.

Bush is Hitler, and Kerry is Stalin. An interesting choice for american voters. We here in Europe are ruled by bureaucratic idiots who are appointed, not elected.

Stephen,

Would you please explain what it is Martin was saying... I certainly have many functioning brain cells {I am a Senior Software Engineer involved in Digital Video and Audio}... Please explain what a rational human being is supposed to think after reading this diatribe?

Thank you,

Michael

From the East Asian perspective, america hasn't been harsh enough on the perpetrators of the muslim violence.
We would like to see the outlaw terrorists brought to justice, to make the world safer.

Robyn, You're a Democrat my ASS! You're a lying sack of shit. If you think that we are really going to accept that you're a Democrat, you're full of horseshit. Take it somewhere else sister, we're full up here.

I can't say that I blame you yanks for wanting to strike back hard. The middle east is a large cesspool that badly needs draining. Sorry I can't do more to help.

Seriously, these too far left wingnuts are giving the democratic party and liberals in general a bad name.

I would say the same about the above letter with regards to Republicans and the right wing. It's a bit shrill.

Kill the terrorists. Yes. But we don't need to get so militant against Muslims that we shoot before we think.

Thank you WTF...

I would like the hot-heads to cool off an think about what they are saying... Maybe they can ask their religious leaders before replying...

And Robyn, to whom are you referring? Who is giving the Dems a bad name?

Thanks,
Michael

As a democrat, it sickens me to read the idiocies of these mental midgets from DU. They probably need somebody to wipe them after they---you know.

Some interesting thoughts here. Some very stupid thoughts as well, but that's part of free speech. Well done.

It's ok Michael, Robyn is not a real Democrat, she only plays one on Horsefeathers.
You know how I know Robyn isn't a real Democrat?
because Dems don't believe the polls that says Kerry is losing.
In fact, Dems know that Gallup is run by a born again evangelical wingnut, who believes that he is doing "God's work."

Nice try, stupid. Fortunately a few democrats are still trying to save the party from the idiots like the DU scumswimmers. You think Kerry's not behind? You guarantee his defeat with that attitude of denial. Loser.

Robyn,

You are full of shit, an imposter. Trying to save the Democratic Party????
Now I know you're full of shit. Because true Democrats aren't trying to save "the party" they're trying to save the COUNTRY.
LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE.
Robyn is NOT A DEMOCRAT, she's full of shit.

Robyn,

I don't want to burst your scum-bubble, but you make absolutely no sense at all. Are you taking your medication? Maybe not....

Polls are being manipulated. It has been shown, and people are admitting it. The last Poll of Polls only showed Kerry behind by 3-4%... That is not a landslide, and in case you are dumb, the election is still over a month away. Are you saying that Kerry has lost even though the election hasn't even started? I didn't know you had ESP... Do you think you do?

I agree with WTF? that you are a liar... You are not a democrat, and are pretending to be one because you are a sociopathic liar, or it gets you off sexually... Which is it?

Good Day,
Michael

I'm the only real democrat on this board, apparently. The cracked pots from DU are intent on killing the party and the country at the same time. What disgusting turds.

Hey Robyn,

I bet you like Zell Miller and think he's a wonderful spokesperson for us Democrats. Admit it, you like Zell, you're a Zell lover.
Democrat, MY ASS LOL

Truth be told gentlemen, when the current administration starts tightening the screws they will take their list of who's got guns from the National Rifle Association and you guys will be the first ones rounded up and put in the camps. Some of you will be adjudged useful and put into the stormtrooper squads that will end the lives of what used to be your fellow americans, but now will be proclaimed as fellow travelers to whatever outside threat is most useful, yes Islam probably. But most of you will have your guns taken and be put on lists of people to be watched. And a few of you will be put away by the CIA and the FBI and those folks that ran the Waco scene. And it won't be pretty. And then this American experiment will finally be truly over. Democracy will be dead and the aristocrats will have their sons rule what's left of the white boys and girls for the rest of time. Thank you Jesus.

Robyn:

If you are real Democrat, you can answer this question:

How many times has Bush flip flopped on the reason to go to war with Iraq?
Think hard, because if you don't know this answer, you're a damn liar.

Hey Robyn:

Take a look at Tex's post. That's what a true Democrat looks like.

The thing that really disgusts me about the DU untermenschen is their foul language. You'd think they had never gone to school, or learned any words but curse words. Very sad.

A real democrat doesn't need to use profanity with every other word.

The sandniggers are no real threat. If Dubya and Co. were concerned, they'd have nuked Mecca and Medina before noon Eastern Time on September 11th, 2001.

"Terrorism" is a bogeyman the state dangles from a string to scare you into giving up your rights. The Emperor has no clothes. "Ignore that man behind the curtain," indeed.

None of this is meant to imply that Islam can coexist with Western Civilization in the 21st Century--it can't, and the sandniggers know it. The sandniggers are cavemen with AK-47s and not capable either of reforming or of controlling themselves. They are Bronze Age throwbacks and their acts of terrorism are acts of desperation, the last thrashings of a snake with a broken back. But if the US government were really concerned about it, they'd just exterminate the sandniggers and be done with it. Who would miss them? They're vermin, the lot of them.

The sandniggers are a non-issue, and they're being permitted to crash airliners into buildings and cut off the heads of American citizens because the government doesn't want people to object too loudly to the Patriot Act--which was in planning for years and years before 9/11/01.

Just as niggers, 10% of the US population, commit 80% of the violent crime, and are permitted to do so because it allows the Powers that Be a pretext to do away with the Bill of Rights.

Shut up with the "real Democrat" shit. It's apparent that you're not a Democrat. You don't know what it means to be a Democrat. And I notice you haven't answered my question.
How many times has George Bush flip flopped on the reason for war with Iraq???
You don't know, you big phony sack of shit.

How lowlife it must be to support a mainstream candidate. Or more properly stated, how no-life.

I see that Death has come over from the DU to join his loser brothers.

A real democrat such as myself will try to pull the pieces together after the fools have done their worst to tear it apart.

BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Times up moron.
The answer is 23. Bush has given us 23 reasons to go to war with Iraq. None of them true.
Now, I am going to declare myself and Republican and say that I am embarrassed beyond belief that my fellow Republicans are advocating such violence. This is not the true Republican Party. I am appalled. Devastated. What would "REAL REPUBLICANS" think about such nonsense, such garbage?
It's truly disheartening to see so many Republicans with their heads up their asses?
I am sure Robyn, our faux Democrat will agree with me. That Republicans have lost their way and now I must, as any good Republican would do, save my party from themselves.
Will you help me Robyn? Will you cross party lines, reach out your hand to me in a sign of good faith, to help restore our two parties to their former glory.
Any true Democrat would do that. Let's meet in the middle and be friends. Me, as a Republican, you as a Democrat, what do you say?????

From Kozloffs retraction:

The letter was expressing the feelings and drives of what I see in more and more Americans. It was a FICTITIOUS letter. It personified an angry America.

I did not sign my name to it precisely because it did NOT represent my opinion.

Kozloff was big and bad until his job came into play. Tom Doyle writes 'Death before dishonor', yet Kozloff apparently puts job before his fascist values.

What a pussy.

My husband is a republican, and we fight constantly about this election. But we maintain a united front for the kids, and besides, the sex life seems to be better for the political friction.

But seeing what has happened with the leftist wingnuts in the democratic party, dragging us all down. It's a sad situation, and my husband gloats unceasingly.

But you're too stupid to be a democrat or a republican.

WTF?

I don't know if I agree that tex's post proves he is a democrat. It sounds like Tex was being fascetious by giving us the worst-case scenario of what will happen when BushCo start their second term. I have been a Democrat since Clinton {I did vote for the infamous Reagun and fool Bush 41 when I was young and impressionable}. I realized that the Repubs dont want the same things that the people want, they represent the Corporations and Special Intrests {with money}. When it comes to helping people, the repubs want to let the "Church" do it {Again SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE}. There are so many issues I disagree with Repubs, so I am a Democrat and proud of it. I am proud that during the 8 years of Clinton, me and my family consistently moved up the pay ladder, getting better jobs, better houses, and better cars... Under Bush I have lost jobs, lost cars, and almost lost my house. I see that Bush doesnt give a rats ass about the people, he cares about Halliburton and Carlisle groups, the Bohemian Grove, and paying off his cronies. I see the hypocrisy crying out loudly, but it seems that most people turn a deaf ear.

The president is sworn to uphold the laws and protect this country. I don't think Bush did even an acceptable job. He sat on important memos which, if he had read them and understood them {They WERE NOT HISTORICAL DOCUMENTS!!!}, he could have possibly called the right people {connect the dots} and prevented the 9/11 attacks. Remember that Jonathan Uman died on that day because our government was too busy trying to make Bush look good {reading My Pet Goat} than trying to protect the country. Then he ran like a scared-ass {check out what happened in the hours after the 1st plane hit the tower}... It is laughable, but I cry about it because I lost my brother because of politics.

I also think that we should not play games like "I'm a better Democrat than you", etc... It reminds me of the fights I used to have at Grateful Dead shows... "I'm a better Deadhead than you because I saw 150 shows and you only saw 80..." It doesn't do anything but make all Deadheads or all Democrats look bad...

I agree that some Republicans are so shifty that they lie about their affiliation. Look at the Nader team, shamelessly going to Republicans to get signatures so he can be on ballots, just so that Bush wins... Those people are deplorable, and dishonest, and amongst those I think will be spending their afterlife in the pits of Gehenna. Honesty in all of lifes dealings is important...

Anyway, I have rambled much too much...

Thank you,
Michael

Anyone else notice that Robyn is not extending her hand to me, a Republican and her, such a good Democrat.
I offered her a chance to restore our beloved parties to their glory. Me, a Republican, and she, a Democrat and I get no answer.
Is that what a good Democrat would do? Spurn the advances of a Republican (me) offering to cross party lines and solve this mess?
I think not.

Robyn,

I remind you that you have not clarified who these Wingnuts in the democratic party are.... It is nonsense to make claims which have no facts....

Sorta like me saying:

those asian representatives give a bad name to all asians....

That statement is useless because it doesn't identify anyone, just "asian representatives"... Do I mean all asian representatives, or just some..